Tag: Drug Costs

Weight-Loss Drugs Are So Popular They’re Headed for Medicare Negotiations

The steep prices — and popularity — of Ozempic and similar weight-loss and diabetes drugs could soon make them a priority for Medicare drug price negotiations. List prices for a month’s supply of the drugs range from $936 to $1,349, according to the Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker.

The Inflation Reduction Act President Biden signed in 2022 paved the way for the federal program to negotiate prices directly with drugmakers for the first time. But for now, the high price of Ozempic, Trulicity and other drugs in the class known as GLP-1 agonists have put them out of reach for many low-income patients.

Novo Nordisk’s Ozempic and Wegovy could be eligible for negotiation as early as 2025, said Juliette Cubanski, deputy director of the Program on Medicare Policy at KFF. Lilly’s Trulicity may follow the next year.

Medicare shelled out $5.7 billion in 2022 for three popular GLP-1 drugs, up from $57 million in 2018, according to research by KFF. The “outrageously high” prices have “the potential to bankrupt Medicare, Medicaid, and our entire health care system,” Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who chairs the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, wrote in a letter to Novo Nordisk in April.

That spending will continue to skyrocket as the benefits of these drugs pile up. Medicare can’t cover the drugs for weight loss alone, but the program does cover them when prescribed to treat diabetes. Wegovy, a version of Ozempic, has also been approved to treat heart disease and the compound has shown promise in treating kidney disease.

The drugs are likely choices for Medicare haggling, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

But just how much will prices come down?

We’ll learn whether Medicare is a good bargainer in September, when the negotiated prices of the first 10 drugs selected for the process are published, Cubanski said.

While the negotiations will initially help only Medicare beneficiaries, other patients could see a benefit once prices are made public and drugmakers start feeling pressure. That’s what happened after the Inflation Reduction Act capped insulin prices for Medicare enrollees at $35 a month.

Another wild card? The winner of the November election. Biden’s been touting Medicare drug price negotiations on the campaign trail.

Trump talked a lot about driving down drug prices in his first term, but he eventually backed off letting Medicare negotiate. It’s unclear whether Trump would take on drugmakers — or his own party — during a second term.

Congressional Republicans voted against the IRA and some have put forward proposals to repeal it.


This article is not available for syndication due to republishing restrictions. If you have questions about the availability of this or other content for republication, please contact NewsWeb@kff.org.


March Medicaid Madness

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With Medicare and Social Security apparently off the table for federal budget cuts, the focus has turned to Medicaid, the federal-state health program for those with low incomes. President Joe Biden has made it clear he wants to protect the program, along with the Affordable Care Act, but Republicans will likely propose cuts to both when they present a proposed budget in the next several weeks.

Meanwhile, confusion over abortion restrictions continues, particularly at the FDA. One lawsuit in Texas calls for a federal judge to temporarily halt distribution of the abortion pill mifepristone. A separate suit, though, asks a different federal judge to temporarily make the drug easier to get, by removing some of the FDA’s safety restrictions.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of Kaiser Health News, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, Rachel Cohrs of STAT News, and Lauren Weber of The Washington Post.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • States are working to review Medicaid eligibility for millions of people as pandemic-era coverage rules lapse at the end of March, amid fears that many Americans kicked off Medicaid who are eligible for free or near-free coverage under the ACA won’t know their options and will go uninsured.
  • Biden promised this week to stop Republicans from “gutting” Medicaid and the ACA. But not all Republicans are on board with cuts to Medicaid. Between the party’s narrow majority in the House and the fact that Medicaid pays for nursing homes for many seniors, cutting the program is a politically dicey move.
  • A national group that pushed the use of ivermectin to treat covid-19 is now hyping the drug as a treatment for flu and RSV — despite a lack of clinical evidence to support their claims that it is effective against any of those illnesses. Nonetheless, there is a movement of people, many of them doctors, who believe ivermectin works.
  • In reproductive health news, a federal judge recently ruled that a Texas law cannot be used to prosecute groups that help women travel out of state to obtain abortions. And the abortion issue has highlighted the role of attorneys general around the country — politicizing a formerly nonpartisan state post. –And Eli Lilly announced plans to cut the price of some insulin products and cap out-of-pocket costs, though their reasons may not be completely altruistic: An expert pointed out that a change to Medicaid rebates next year means drugmakers soon will have to pay the government every time a patient fills a prescription for insulin, meaning Eli Lilly’s plan could save the company money.

Plus, for “extra credit,” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: The New York Times’ “A Drug Company Exploited a Safety Requirement to Make Money,” by Rebecca Robbins.

Alice Miranda Ollstein: The New York Times’ “Alone and Exploited, Migrant Children Work Brutal Jobs Across the U.S.,” by Hannah Dreier.

Rachel Cohrs: STAT News’ “Nonprofit Hospitals Are Failing Americans. Their Boards May Be a Reason Why,” by Sanjay Kishore and Suhas Gondi.

Lauren Weber: KHN and CBS News’ “This Dental Device Was Sold to Fix Patients’ Jaws. Lawsuits Claim It Wrecked Their Teeth,” by Brett Kelman and Anna Werner.

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:


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The Kids Are Not OK

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Teen girls “are experiencing record high levels of violence, sadness, and suicide risk,” according to a new survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 2021, according to the survey, nearly 3 in 5 U.S. teen girls reported feeling “persistently sad or hopeless.”

Meanwhile, a conservative judge in Texas has delayed his ruling in a case that could ban a key drug used in medication abortion. A group of anti-abortion doctors is suing to challenge the FDA’s approval decades ago of the abortion pill mifepristone.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of KHN, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico, and Sandhya Raman of CQ Roll Call.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • American teenagers reported record rates of sadness in 2021, with especially high levels of depression in girls and teens identifying as LGBTQ+, according to a startling CDC report. Sexual violence, mass shootings, cyberbullying, and climate change are among the intensifying problems plaguing young people.
  • New polling shows more Americans are dissatisfied with abortion policy than ever before, as a U.S. district court judge in Texas makes a last call for arguments on the fate of mifepristone. The case is undermining confidence in continued access to the drug, and many providers are discussing using only misoprostol for medication abortions. Misoprostol is used with mifepristone in the current two-drug regimen but is safe and effective, though slightly less so, when used on its own.
  • There are big holes in federal health privacy protections, and some companies that provide health care, like mental health services, exploit those loopholes to sell personal, identifying information about their customers. And this week, Republican Gov. Glenn Youngkin of Virginia blocked a state law that would have banned search warrants for data collected by menstrual tracking apps.
  • California plans to manufacture insulin, directly taking on high prices for the diabetes drug. While other states have expressed interest in following suit, it will likely be up to wealthy, populous California to prove the concept.

Plus, for “extra credit” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week that they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: NPR’s “Is the Deadly Fungi Pandemic in ‘The Last of Us’ Actually Possible?” by Michaeleen Doucleff

Alice Ollstein: The New York Times’ “Childbirth Is Deadlier for Black Families Even When They’re Rich, Expansive Study Finds,” by Claire Cain Miller, Sarah Kliff, and Larry Buchanan; interactive produced by Larry Buchanan and Shannon Lin

Joanne Kenen: NPR’s “In Tennessee, a Medicaid Mix-Up Could Land You on a ‘Most Wanted’ List,” by Blake Farmer

Sandhya Raman: Bloomberg Businessweek’s “Zantac’s Maker Kept Quiet About Cancer Risks for 40 Years,” by Anna Edney, Susan Berfield, and Jef Feeley

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:


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A Health-Heavy State of the Union

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Health care was a recurring theme throughout President Joe Biden’s 2023 State of the Union address on Capitol Hill this week. He took a victory lap on recent accomplishments like capping prescription drug costs for seniors on Medicare. He urged Congress to do more, including making permanent the boosted insurance premium subsidies added to the Affordable Care Act during the pandemic. And he sparred with Republicans in the audience — who jeered and called him a liar — over GOP proposals that would cut Medicare and Social Security.

Meanwhile, abortion rights advocates and opponents are anxiously awaiting a federal court decision out of Texas that could result in a nationwide ban on mifepristone, one of two drugs used in medication abortion.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of KHN, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, Rachel Cohrs of Stat, and Sarah Karlin-Smith of the Pink Sheet.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • President Joe Biden’s State of the Union address emphasized recent victories against high health care costs, like Medicare coverage caps on insulin and out-of-pocket caps on prescription drug spending. Biden’s lively, informal exchange with lawmakers over potential cuts to Medicare and Social Security seemed to steal the show, though the political fight over cutting costs in those entitlement programs is rooted in a key question: What constitutes a “cut”?
  • Biden’s calls for bipartisanship to extend health programs like pandemic-era subsidies for Affordable Care Act health plans are expected to clash with conservative demands to slash federal government spending. And last year’s Senate fights demonstrate that sometimes the opposition comes from within the Democratic Party.
  • While some abortion advocates praised Biden for vowing to veto a federal abortion ban, others felt he did not talk enough about the looming challenges to abortion access in the courts. A decision is expected soon in a Texas court case challenging the future use of mifepristone. The Trump-appointed judge’s decision could ban the drug nationwide, meaning it would be barred even in states where abortion continues to be legal.
  • The FDA is at the center of the abortion pill case, which challenges its approval of the drug decades ago and could set a precedent for legal challenges to the approval of other drugs. In other FDA news, the agency recently changed policy to allow gay men to donate blood; announced new food safety leadership in response to the baby formula crisis; and kicked back to Congress a question of how to regulate CBD, or cannabidiol, products.
  • In drug pricing, the top-selling pharmaceutical, Humira, will soon reach the end of its patent, which will offer a telling look at how competition influences the price of biosimilars — and the problems that remain for lawmakers to resolve.

Also this week, Rovner interviews Kate Baicker of the University of Chicago about a new paper providing a possible middle ground in the effort to establish universal health insurance coverage in the U.S.

Plus, for “extra credit,” the panelists suggest health policy stories they read this week they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: The New York Times’ “Don’t Let Republican ‘Judge Shoppers’ Thwart the Will of Voters,” by Stephen I. Vladeck

Alice Miranda Ollstein: Politico’s “Mpox Is Simmering South of the Border, Threatening a Resurgence,” by Carmen Paun

Sarah Karlin-Smith: KHN’s “Decisions by CVS and Optum Panicked Thousands of Their Sickest Patients,” by Arthur Allen

Rachel Cohrs: ProPublica’s “UnitedHealthcare Tried to Deny Coverage to a Chronically Ill Patient. He Fought Back, Exposing the Insurer’s Inner Workings,” by David Armstrong, Patrick Rucker, and Maya Miller

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:


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KHN’s ‘What the Health?’: Congress Races the Clock


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The lame-duck Congress is making slow progress on its long to-do-before-the-end-of-the-year list. Democrats agreed to lift the covid-19 vaccine mandate for the military as part of the big defense authorization bill, but efforts to ease federal restrictions on marijuana didn’t succeed.

Meanwhile, the fight against high drug prices has spread to employers, which are trying a variety of strategies to spend less on prescription drugs while still giving workers access to needed medications.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of KHN, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico, Anna Edney of Bloomberg News, and Sandhya Raman of CQ Roll Call.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • The race to the holiday break is on, with no agreement so far on spending as current government funding is set to expire on Dec. 16. Although another continuing resolution is expected, it would likely leave out measures such as addressing mental health, so lawmakers would need to start over next year. The annual defense authorization bill is also in the works and would end the military’s covid vaccine mandate.
  • In the wake of the infant formula shortage, an FDA advisory group report this week said the agency’s work on food regulation needs a major overhaul, especially when it comes to enforcement power and leadership.
  • In drug pricing news, Americans can expect to see the costs of covid testing, vaccines, and treatments rise as federal subsidies run out and leave the pandemic response subject to the same cost and access disparities common to the nation’s health care system. Meanwhile, entrepreneur Mark Cuban’s discount prescription drugs company is teaming up with EmsanaRx, a nonprofit pharmacy benefit manager — thereby cutting out for-profit PBMs in another attempt to cut costs for patients.
  • Health care providers are pushing Congress to stop a long-planned cut in Medicare payments, while a new report from KFF shows the three largest for-profit hospital chains are seeing operating margins that exceed pre-pandemic levels. The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services also issued new rules this week on “prior authorization” that providers say could temper the bureaucratic hassle of dealing with Medicare. And private equity firms are getting into the game of running clinical trials, while in insurance, UnitedHealth Group is buying up providers.
  • On reproductive health, an Alabama woman is suing the county government that jailed her on the suspicion she had exposed her fetus to drugs. Her issue? She was not pregnant. The case raises questions about how changes to abortion access are playing out across the country.

Plus, for extra credit, the panelists recommend their favorite health policy stories of the week they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: The AP Stylebook’s “Abortion Topical Guide,” by The Associated Press

Anna Edney: The Washington Post’s “Drugs Killed 8 Friends, One by One, in a Tragedy Seen Across the U.S.,” by Lenny Bernstein and Jordan-Marie Smith

Joanne Kenen: Columbia Journalism Review’s “Anonymous Woman,” by Becca Andrews

Sandhya Raman: CQ Roll Call’s “At International Conference, Dobbs Dominates Debate,” by Sandhya Raman

Also mentioned in this week’s podcast:


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KHN’s ‘What the Health?’: On Government Spending, Congress Decides Not to Decide


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Congress is supposed to complete its annual appropriations bills before the start of the fiscal year on Oct. 1. But it rarely does, and this year is no different, as lawmakers scramble to pass a short-term funding bill so they can put off final decisions until at least December.

Meanwhile, with an eye to the midterms, House Republicans put out a “Commitment to America,” which includes only the vaguest promises related to health care. It’s yet another demonstration that the only thing in health care that unifies Republicans is their opposition to Democrats’ health policies. It’s notable that this latest Republican plan does not suggest repealing the Affordable Care Act.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of KHN, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, Rachel Cohrs of Stat, and Victoria Knight of Axios.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • The short-term funding bill to keep the government open includes the five-year reauthorization of the FDA’s user fees, which are charged to drugmakers and help pay the salaries of many FDA employees. Democrats had hoped to add provisions to that measure that would create regulations on dietary supplements, cosmetics, and lab tests. The current authorization runs out Oct. 1, and Republicans insisted they would support only a clean bill that did not have new government directives.
  • That government funding bill also will not include President Joe Biden’s request for $20 billion to help pay for additional covid-19 and monkeypox vaccines and testing. Democrats said they wanted to extend those programs, but Republicans balked and said the administration still has not accounted for all the previous appropriations.
  • Biden’s comment on “60 Minutes” suggesting that the covid pandemic “is over” hurt administration efforts to persuade Congress to pass the extra covid funding.
  • Biden took a victory lap this week and touted successes on administration priorities for Medicare. Among them, he said, was a reduction in next year’s Part B premium, which generally covers beneficiaries’ outpatient expenses. But that premium went down, primarily because Medicare charged too much in 2022.
  • Medicare premiums this year saw a dramatic increase because officials anticipated that the federal health program would see higher costs associated with the use of Aduhelm, an expensive medication for some Alzheimer’s patients that received tentative approval in 2021 by the FDA. Medicare officials later said they would cover the drug only for patients who also enrolled in a clinical trial, and the expectations for use of the drug plummeted.
  • Republican House members’ proposed agenda pledged to reverse the Democrats’ decision this year to allow Medicare to negotiate some drug prices. Although Democrats said the provision would help drive down costs, Republicans said they don’t like the government interfering in the private market and fear that the measure would hamper innovation.

Also this week, Rovner interviews filmmaker Cynthia Lowen, whose new documentary, “Battleground,” explores how anti-abortion forces played the long game to overturn Roe.

Plus, for extra credit, the panelists recommend their favorite health policy stories of the week they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: KHN’s “Britain’s Hard Lessons From Handing Elder Care Over to Private Equity,” by Christine Spolar

Alice Miranda Ollstein: KHN’s “Embedded Bias: How Medical Records Sow Discrimination,” by Darius Tahir

Rachel Cohrs: The New York Times’ “Arbitration Has Come to Senior Living. You Don’t Have to Sign Up,” by Paula Span

Victoria Knight: Forbes’ “Mark Cuban Considering Leaving Shark Tank as He Bets His Legacy on Low-Cost Drugs,” by Jemima McEvoy 

Also mentioned in this week’s episode:


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KHN’s ‘What the Health?’: Wrapping Up Summer’s Health News


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Congress and President Joe Biden are officially on summer vacation, but they left behind a lot of health policy achievements. The president returned this week from his South Carolina beach retreat to sign the Inflation Reduction Act, which, among other things, allows Medicare to negotiate drug prices for the first time.

The law also preserves the enhanced subsidies for premiums on insurance purchased through the Affordable Care Act’s marketplaces. Congress added those more generous subsidies in 2021, but they would have expired at the end of the year.

Meanwhile, even though Democrats were unable to secure additional Medicare vision, hearing, and dental benefits into the final version of the budget bill, this week the FDA established ground rules for the sale of over-the-counter hearing aids, something ordered by Congress in 2017.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of KHN, Anna Edney of Bloomberg, Alice Miranda Ollstein of Politico, and Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • Despite the new law’s provisions allowing Medicare to negotiate some drug prices, enrollees will have to wait several years to see the benefits of those negotiations. That makes it challenging for Democrats to use the measure as a campaign promotion. Plus, Republicans may try to use the intervening years, while the price negotiating process is being set up, to batter Democrats’ efforts.
  • Other Medicare provisions, such as the new limit on out-of-pocket drug spending and caps on insulin spending, will provide more immediate benefits.
  • The act’s extension of ACA premium subsidies is also a hard victory to illuminate for consumers, who won’t see their costs fall and would likely have only noticed a difference if the measure had failed to pass and the program had ended.
  • Nonetheless, ad campaigns are already beginning to target the Republican opposition to popular health issues. No GOP lawmakers voted to support the measure.
  • Hearing aids fitting the new category are expected to be significantly less expensive for people with mild to moderate hearing loss. Still unanswered, however, is whether these new devices will work adequately.
  • The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released new covid-19 guidelines last week that relax previous recommendations. The announcement highlights the growing disdain among the public for continuing the isolating prevention strategies of the past several years. But perhaps overlooked is the growing number of people suffering from long-term covid symptoms and how the condition damages their lives and the economy.
  • The CDC also announced this week that it will reorganize to better meet public health crises after a study of its covid response identified problems, especially in communicating with the public.
  • Although much of the opposition to abortion restrictions arising since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade has been propelled by women, men are also playing a role both in the politics ahead and in wide-ranging personal decisions, such as what states to choose for college or seeking vasectomies.

Plus, for extra credit, the panelists suggest their favorite health policy stories of the week they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: The Los Angeles Times’ “The CDC Loosened Its COVID Rules. Who Fills in This Public Health Vacuum?” by Wendy Netter Epstein and Daniel Goldberg

Alice Miranda Ollstein: MedPage Today’s “Falls From Higher Border Walls Overwhelm Trauma Services,” by Cheryl Clark

Joanne Kenen: Harper’s Magazine’s “A Hole in the Head,” by Zachary Siegel

Anna Edney: Stat’s “Parents and Clinicians Say Private Equity’s Profit Fixation Is Short-Changing Kids With Autism,” by Tara Bannow

Also mentioned in this week’s episode:

The Washington Post’s “Florida Court Rules 16-Year-Old Is Not ‘Sufficiently Mature’ for Abortion,” by Brittany Shammas and Kim Bellware

The Atlantic’s “The Pandemic’s Soft Closing,” by Katherine J. Wu

Politico’s “Tim Kaine Has Long Covid. That’s Not Moving Congress to Act,” by Alice Miranda Ollstein


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KHN’s ‘What the Health?’: Drug Price Bill Is a Go in the Senate


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President Joe Biden is the latest top Washington official to test positive for covid-19, following Vice President Kamala Harris, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. But work continues, particularly on a Senate bill that could, for the first time, allow Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices and cap seniors’ out-of-pocket medication costs.

Meanwhile, both supporters and opponents of abortion rights are struggling to find their footing in the wake of the Supreme Court’s overturn of the federal right to abortion in Roe v. Wade.

This week’s panelists are Julie Rovner of KHN, Shefali Luthra of The 19th, Joanne Kenen of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and Politico, and Rachel Cohrs of Stat.

Among the takeaways from this week’s episode:

  • Although some Democrats and many political pundits are criticizing the Senate for scaling back the president’s Build Back Better agenda to be mostly a health care bill, the proposal in that bill to allow Medicare to negotiate prices for some drugs would be a major change that drugmakers have successfully fought for two decades.
  • The bill, which hasn’t been released in full, will include only those provisions that have been approved by Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), because all 50 members of the Democratic caucus in the Senate will be needed to pass the bill. In addition to allowing price negotiations on 10 drugs in the first year, the legislation would penalize drugmakers that raise prices above the rate of inflation and limit Medicare beneficiaries’ out-of-pocket drug spending to $2,000 a year.
  • The bill is also expected to include provisions to extend for an additional two years the enhanced subsidies for premiums on health policies purchased through the Affordable Care Act’s marketplace. Those details have not yet been released.
  • Progressives have been dismayed at the administration’s lackluster answer to the Supreme Court’s decision overturning Roe. Even as the White House notes that there are limits to what the president can do, the administration has been more cautious than many expected in announcing how it plans to respond. For example, immediately after the Supreme Court released the decision, the administration said it would guard women’s access to medication abortions — but there has been little follow-up.
  • The Indiana doctor who treated a 10-year-old rape victim seeking an abortion is threatening a defamation lawsuit against the state’s attorney general, who incorrectly said on national television that she didn’t file the necessary paperwork.
  • The case of that 10-year-old has put anti-abortion groups on the defensive and suggested that they are split on how to handle situations like this. Some leaders suggest the child should have gone forward with the pregnancy, while other groups said people who have been raped should not have to carry a baby to term.
  • Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton is continuing his push to restrict abortion. The state basically shut down most abortions last September with a strict law that allows community members to sue doctors and others who help a woman get an abortion beyond six weeks of pregnancy. Now, Paxton is challenging the Biden administration’s statement that federal law entitles people seeking emergency care because of pregnancy problems to get an abortion. Paxton has said that federal law does not preempt the state’s restrictions.
  • Texas’ hard line on abortion could have an economic impact within the state. Some young people and companies are not in favor of the abortion policies and some are threatening to leave the state.

Also this week, Rovner interviews Dr. Jack Resneck Jr., a California dermatologist who is the new president of the American Medical Association.

Plus, for extra credit, the panelists recommend their favorite health policy stories of the week they think you should read, too:

Julie Rovner: KHN’s “Conservative Blocs Unleash Litigation to Curb Public Health Powers,” by Lauren Weber and Anna Maria Barry-Jester

Shefali Luthra: Stat’s “Health Care’s High Rollers: As the Pandemic Raged, CEOs’ Earnings Surged,” by Bob Herman, Kate Sheridan, J. Emory Parker, Adam Feuerstein, and Mohana Ravindranath

Rachel Cohrs: Politico’s “Anthony Fauci Wants to Put Covid’s Politicization Behind Him,” by Sarah Owermohle

Joanne Kenen: Inside Climate News’ “When the Power Goes Out, Who Suffers? Climate Epidemiologists Are Now Trying to Figure That Out,” by Laura Baisas

Also mentioned on this week’s podcast:


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